I previously wrote that hit points don't actually represent anything.
That's true, but it ignores the role they play in the mechanics of the system.
See, it's absurd to think that as a fighter progress in martial arts that they improve only at attacking and not at defending.
The obvious solution is a straight-up Red Queen scenario where every level the Fighter gets +1 Attack and +1 Defense. For whatever reason, D&D didn't do that, and has forever confused people since.
What D&D does is increase your Hit Points as a proxy for your increasing defensive abilities.
To understand this, we have to recall that in Chainmail, one hit equals one kill. Heroes take four hits, and Super Heroes take 8. Notice that it's no harder to hit Heroes - simply harder to kill them (or so it seems).
But is a Hero really any harder to kill than a normal man? Of course not. Sever his spine and he'll die like the rest. What he has is exceptional defensive ability that allows him to turn aside three blows that would have killed a lesser man.
Remember that in 0e, every hit die is a d6, and every damage die is a d6. This means that one die of damage (on average) removes one Hit Die. So your Level 1 mook is dead in one hit, and your Level 4 Hero is dead in 4. Just like Chainmail (but a little more random).
So it's clear that increasing HP is a proxy for increasing Defense (or AC, as D&D calls it), and nothing else. Every Hit Die is really a mulligan representing your increased ability to defend yourself.
How to reconcile this with healing rates and whatnot? You can't. That's because this is a stupid way to do things that causes no end of confusion, and is a prime example of an overloaded mechanic (i.e. HP is both life force and defensive ability).
Hit points are a measure of how "bad ass" character is and how important they are in a combat heavy campaign. This can be taken too far however in both directions and we endup with folks that can be shot with 100 arrows on one side and unimportant frost giants that can be slain with a single hit.
ReplyDelete"Hit points are a measure of how "bad ass" character is and how important they are in a combat heavy campaign."
DeleteWell, no. They're what I said in the article - an alternative to beefing up your Defense (i.e. Armour Class).
They may have come to mean "general badassery" to some, but that's because the original designers were obscure about what their mechanics represented (if they even knew).
Seems to me there could be an in-between. Basic defense score is, say, 12. Hit points lie underneath this, determined at first level and rarely, if ever, increased. Characters also have a pool of "defense points", which can be spent to increase their defense by 1 for 1 round. You can spend a number equal to your level each time.
ReplyDeleteThis then becomes the score that is increased with level, rather than hit points - daily points that can be spent on defense, but are finite and still not a guarantee of avoiding a blow. It also skirts the problem of high level characters being able to turn aside blows of mooks all day by having their base defense increased every level.
I think the problem of high-level characters having enormous defense scores is neatly avoided by not having any high level characters.
DeleteI can't really see any need for a level cap higher than maybe 5-6.
If, as I do, Fighters (say) start with +2 Attack / Defense, and get +1 to each every level, and they're more robust to start with than regular D&D characters, and get +1 Crit Range every level, by Level 5, a Fighter is easily at the level of a Master swordsman - the kind of person that there might be a handful of in a country the size of England.
I don't see any need for much room beyond that.
So, what to do then?
ReplyDeleteOne thought I've had is to just use Constitution as HP but this places far too much emphasis on a random stat for my liking
The whole concept of hit points is pretty dubious. At best you have GURPS or Runequest but even these don't really fit with reality or fiction. I'm not sure what the answer is but I suspect a whole different mechanic is required.
Well, I'm working on a system of "descriptive damage", where combat results are more like "a mortal wound to the neck", which can then be interpreted to be something like a severed carotid.
DeleteBut the simple solution is to leave everyone at their starting HP and have fighters get +1 Defense (i.e. AC in D&D) every level.
Works okay if no one ever learns the fireball spell as written in D&D.
DeleteWorks just fine - fireball just kills people.
DeleteWhich, honestly, is kind of what I would expect from a spell that's basically a 250lb napalm bomb.
Charles, I decided to write up a quick version of a proposed combat system that accounts for all of these points. Take a look!
ReplyDeletehttp://goblinism.blogspot.com/2013/09/combat-fun.html
Seems a little complicated... With all the problems there are with D&D combat, the one huge mark in its favour is simplicity - d20 + mods vs static target, and then roll for damage.
DeleteThe obvious solution to the blended mechanic of Hit Points is to simply remove their role as Defense and increase Defense with every level.
That said, for hit-point based systems, I do like using Hit Points for Armour, too, and having repair kits required for different armours - spare cloth, needle + thread for cloth, wire and pliers for chain, and plates, hammers, and rivets for plate.
DeleteI for a while was toying with treating HP as a measure of how "important" a character was, by that I mean one or more otherwordly beings would take increasingly greater interest in the activities of a character as he gained in levels, with the characters being able to beseech their unknown patrons for a replenishment of their HP when in dire straits. This is something I'd use for a very weird and pulpy game though.
ReplyDeleteMy other thought is since I am flipping from the descending AC and the Target 20 resolution and ascending AC with the roll higher resolution, that I might treat the defense score of a character/monster as another saving throw, in as far as the more it improves the lower it is, which also made me think of something less related to physical combat and pertaining to saving throws vs spells etc and treating them as "ACs", requiring the source of the effect to roll against the saving throw value.
As far as armour, are you using it as HP or damage reduction currently?
I've been using it as damage reduction for a while, but I'm starting to try out a whole new damage system that doesn't use HP.
DeleteThanks for your post - I am always glad to find thoughtful discussions on Hit Points. How can we conceptualize them? Perhaps more importantly at game time, how do we describe changes to the stat through combat or level gain?
ReplyDeleteI cut my RPG teeth on the D&D boxed sets as a kid, and when I started playing RISUS a few years ago I was at a bit of a loss without "hit points" in the mix.
After a bit I realized that HP were just as much an abstraction as any other stat, and the problem for me was simply one of mapping these stats onto appropriate "real world" concepts.
Lots of food for thought here - thanks again.
As an abstract concept (HPs = increased defensiveness/mulligans) you CAN rectify the healing issue. At least, I have: you just re-roll them at the beginning of each session.
ReplyDeleteIf HPs represent your character's staying power (and diminishment of HPs does not equate to a diminishment in effectiveness) than there's no reason not to "refresh" them every session. Your character's luck or skill or whatnot is "back" as a mulligan resource for adventure. I have players re-roll completely, as a person's state of physical health or "streak of luck" may be up or down and I don't want to create random illness tables and fatigue and keep track of "did you drink too much wine at the tavern the night before," etc.
That's just how I roll...at least with my last game design. When characters hit zero HP they get a save versus death and (if successful) a roll on a random injury chart to see what lingering wound they received that might hamper them (and a broken limb or maimed face or whatever can last a lot longer than the time it takes to recover HPs).
Sorry...just found your blog, and I'm reading all the entries chronologically. Only up to last September, though.
; )
I would probably re-roll at the beginning of each encounter, with that concept.
DeleteBut yeah, I like that.