22 November 2012

Shields, Two-handed weapons, and Offhand weapons


In the D&D I'm familiar with, 2-handers are always better than shields. The following is for Basic D&D with the "optional" damage rules that everyone uses.

I'll start off with my proposal, and then go through the reasoning below.

  • Two-handed Weapon
    • 2d8-L
  • One-hander and Shield
    • +2 AC bonus
  • One-hander and Off-hander
    • +1 AC, +1 Attack



Let's look at some examples. We'll have 2 Level 1 fighters, AC 5.

Sword and Shield vs. Two-handers

Give both a shield and sword (AC -1, damage d8):

Expected damage output is 1.125 dmg/rnd. ((AC 4 + 1)/20)*(4.5)

Give one a two-handed sword (damage d10)):

Expected damage output for the two-hander is 1.375. ((AC 4 + 1)/20)*(5.5)
Expected damage output for the shield and sword is 1.35. ((AC 5 + 1)/20)*(4.5)

Off-hand weapons

Blog of Holding has an interesting idea about off-hand weapons: +1 to attack, and 50/50 chance of doing damage as the large weapon (d8) or the small weapon (d4). Let's look at that. Again, two Level 1 Fighters in chain.

Shield and Sword vs. Dagger and Sword

Expected damage output for the dagger and sword is 1.05. ((AC 4 + 1 + 1)/20)*((4.5+2.5)/2).
Expected damage output for the shield and sword is 1.35. ((AC 5 + 1)/20)*(4.5)

Two-handed Sword vs. Dagger and Sword


Expected damage output for the dagger and sword is 1.225. ((AC 5 + 1 + 1)/20)*((4.5+2.5)/2).
Expected damage output for the two-handed sword is 1.65. ((AC 5 + 1)/20)*(5.5)

Higher Levels

Let's try Level 10 Fighters, all else equal.

Give both a shield and sword (AC -1, damage d8):

Expected damage output is 3.15 dmg/rnd. ((AC 4 + 10)/20)*(4.5)

Give one a two-handed sword (damage d10)):

Expected damage output for the two-hander is 3.85. ((AC 4 + 10)/20)*(5.5)
Expected damage output for the shield and sword is 3.375. ((AC 5 + 10)/20)*(4.5)

Shield and Sword vs. Dagger and Sword

Expected damage output for the dagger and sword is 2.625. ((AC 4 + 1 + 10)/20)*((4.5+2.5)/2).
Expected damage output for the shield and sword is 3.375. ((AC 5 + 10)/20)*(4.5)

Two-handed Sword vs. Dagger and Sword

Expected damage output for the dagger and sword is 2.8. ((AC 5 + 1 + 10)/20)*((4.5+2.5)/2).
Expected damage output for the two-handed sword is 4.125. ((AC 5 + 10)/20)*(5.5)


Preliminary Conclusions

It's always better to use a two-hander. I used the most conservative rule I've seen for two-handed damage (2d8 drop lowest has a slightly higher average than 1d10, 5.81 vs. 5.5).

Blog of Holding's two-weapon implementation, while interesting, would never be the right choice for a player (a min-maxer, anyways) - it's worse than a two-hander, and it's worse than sword and shield. For that matter, it's worse than just a sword.

The fact is, changes in the to-hit number are dwarfed by changes in the damage number. This is the case for the traditional shield rules, and for Blog of Holding's new two-weapon implementation.

It's not immediately intuitive, but a +1 to hit (generally) makes only a 5% change in the expected damage. That means if your base damage is 4.5 (i.e a normal sword), you need between +4 and +5 to-hit to equal a 1 point damage increase.

Next Steps

Now, I think that the Blog of Holding implementation is a step in the right direction. It's moving away from the draconian penalties seen in AD&D and 3E, and I like that. The problem is that it is still a penalty, albeit a less obvious and less severe one.

Having a dagger in your off-hand should improve your combat effectiveness, not weaken it!

I think +1 to-hit and a +1 AC bonus (i.e. -1 actual AC, DAC) might be good, along with changing shields to be +2 or maybe even more. For gameplay purposes, I think I'd like to see some interesting tradeoffs between the three basic weapon options.

Let's look at why someone would choose any of these three options.


  • Two-handed Weapon
    • deal with armour (longsword vs. arming sword)
    • deal more damage (poleaxe vs. warhammer)
    • extend reach (i.e. spear, poleaxe)
  • One-hander and Shield
    • add protection to unbalanced weapon (i.e. mace, warhammer)
  • One-hander and Off-hander
    • portability (maine-gauche or dagger is smaller than a shield)
    • versatility (more attack options than with a shield)
And let's look at how we can model this in D&D or similar games.

  • Two-handed Weapon
    • damage bonus
  • One-hander and Shield
    • AC bonus
  • One-hander and Off-hander
    • some AC and some attack OR
    • some AC bonus and some damage bonus
Personally, I like the idea of the off-hander adding some attack, rather than some damage. But I'll admit it's pretty arbitrary.

Final Conclusions

Now, let's look at the specifics.

  • Two-handed Weapon
    • 2dX-L (roll two, drop lowest)
  • One-hander and Shield
    • +2 AC bonus
  • One-hander and Off-hander
    • +1 AC, +1 Attack
Expected damage output for a Level 1 Fighter equipped with a sword and chain vs. a Level 1 Fighter with chain and each of the above kits.

Two-handed sword (2d8-L):

Expected damage output for the two-hander is 1.743. ((AC 5 + 1)/20)*(5.81)
Expected damage output for the sword is 1.35. ((AC 5 + 1)/20)*(4.5)
Difference is 0.393.

One-hander and shield:

Expected damage output for the one-hander and shield is 1.35. ((AC 5 + 1)/20)*(4.5)
Expected damage output for the sword is 0.9. ((AC 3 + 1)/20)*(4.5)
Difference is 0.45.

One-hander and off-hander

Expected damage output for the one-hander and off-hander is 1.575. ((AC 5 + 1 + 1)/20)*(4.5)
Expected damage output for the sword is 1.125. ((AC 4 + 1)/20)*(4.5)
Difference is 0.45.



1 comment:

  1. I like both the idea of the shield providing +2 (making it a bigger deal) and the offhand weapon increasing both attack bonus and defense. One of the weaknesses of my proposal was that a main gauche in the off-hand wasn't used for parrying.

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